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Isn't it odd?

Isn't it odd?

There was an accident on a BBC ride last night. (A rider struck a large chunk of concrete % crashed onto the 'roadway')I'm sure that there are quite a few folks who would say that the results of this accident makes a good argument to support the 3 foot 'bubble bill'.

  Yet, (some of)these same folks who seek to make cycling safer by supporting a bill that forces motorists to slow down and wait until such time that they can give a 3 wide berth between them & cyclists to pass,wouldn't take a moment of their time to make cycling safer by removing the hazard that caused the crash.
       Just saying,
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Re: Isn't it odd?

I'm sorry, Carl. I have no context.

What ride and what happened and what result?

2013 mileage=12,169 miles;
2014 mileage=5,156 miles;
2015  mileage=6,200 miles;
2016 mileage=17,503 miles;

Isaias O'Daniell
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Re: Isn't it odd?

This is very hard to quote given the extreme passive-agressive style of the post (see below) but this is my best edit of the post:
<<< (Carl Boyd): "A rider struck a large chunk of concrete (and) crashed (snip). (Some of)these same folks who seek to make cycling safer (snip) (should) take a moment of their time to make cycling safer by removing the hazard that caused the crash. Just saying," >>>

Really?  What BS Carl.  If we stopped to remove all of the hazards we pass on the road, then we might as well eliminate anything like a 15/17 and an 18+ ride category and a fast training ride like we do on Gang rides.  I have done rides where I was mapping routes (taking notes), stopping to pick blackberries, removing debris from the road and on a route where my average speed is usually 17-18mph I did 13.  This is NOT what I expected to see posted this morning and if I sound pissed off, I am.

I was leading 2-3 others when I passed the "rock."  I believe it was actually the kind of giant gravel chunk that they use to create a temporary apron when doing construction in a new place, essentially a squared off chunk a couple of inches each side.  So the guilty party for that hazard was the construction truck it fell off of or the new neighborhood in the county for which it was being hauled.  I did exactly what any and all of us do which is that I pointed at it so the guys behind would miss it and they did.  I will point out that I also didn't pause for a minute to voice that I had seen the rock when it was brought up, I wasn't hiding anything.

Given that at the time, our group was (we thought) the last group on the road of those who came to ride, as we had all been dropped, I don't believe that you, or any other hard charging cyclist in a paceline on a group ride would pull out of line, lose the draft/group and stop to move a rock or branch or glass or virtually anything from the road.  If I were out by myself, the odds are that I WOULD have done so but I find it very disingenuous to make a public post in such a passive-aggressive way to impugn my integrity in such a way.  We ALL ride past hazards all the time and once they are behind us I would say we stop to remove them far less than 1% of the time.

I am very disappointed in your post and the insinuation that I did something wrong last night and I will not let it stand and even though only a few people knew about it until now and I've alerted 1,700 people about it.  I'll open it up to discussion for BBC and the Gang as to what percentage of our upper speed bracket riders would stop to remove a large piece of "gravel" from the road when in a paceline in a somewhat competitive riding situation where that might well mean losing touch with your group for the rest of the ride.

Before you accuse people of wrongdoing I suggest you think that accusation through, and apply your vast riding experience to the opinion.  I have spent countless hours with you on many long rides of over 50 miles and we have both ridden past thousands of pieces of road trash and I cannot recall you ever pulling off to remove them from the road.  Get real.

Stuart

~too much of anything is just enough for me. Pete Townshend

Stuart Lamb
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Re: Isn't it odd?

^^^^^
Thanks, Stuart.

I now have context and have made my choice in the poll.

.

2013 mileage=12,169 miles;
2014 mileage=5,156 miles;
2015  mileage=6,200 miles;
2016 mileage=17,503 miles;

Isaias O'Daniell
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Re: Isn't it odd?

Does anyone know how to see the results of the polls? 
The Board Info says there are 5 of them, so far.  I can't find any or a way to see ongoing results.

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Re: Isn't it odd?

^^^^^^^^
I think you have to vote to see the results.

Right now, it's 50/50 between "Are you nutz?" (to stop)  and "It depends"

This poll is here:

http://www.baltobikeclub.org/index.php? … ;Itemid=64

2013 mileage=12,169 miles;
2014 mileage=5,156 miles;
2015  mileage=6,200 miles;
2016 mileage=17,503 miles;

Isaias O'Daniell
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Re: Isn't it odd?

Weird poll format.
I clicked the 20-80 vote and hit submit. In the second it took to refresh the screen, I noticed that the 0-10 "are you nutz" box was also still checked off. Did I make two simultaneous votes?

Edited by: Bob Wagner - Apr-09-10 04:48 pm

bobwag@gmail.com
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http://randoramble.wordpress.com/

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Re: Isn't it odd?

'Just The Facts, Ma'am' , just the facts

I made no 'accusations' or 'insinuated anything' , I simply stated the facts.

As I stated ,this  was NO 'piece of gravel' , it was a chunk of concrete as large as , or larger than my fist. (I'd have saved it if I'd thought it's size would be questioned)
   
I made announcements both here on the BBC website , and in the parking lot, that I, & perhaps others would be riding that route starting @ 6pm.

  Carl
ps,The results of your poll matter little when someone ends up in the hospital or dead.  I propose we take a poll of BBC members as to whether or not  public roads are the proper venue for engaging in "competitive riding situations".

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Re: Isn't it odd?

Can we just get along here?  How about reading my sig?  You know, you can do both.

~Ride safe, ride hard!~
cctrekker@gmail.com

Terry Harrigan
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Re: Isn't it odd?

Unfortunately, if you believe Stuart's significantly erroneous description of the rock that caused this wreck, you have the incorrect context and therefore your vote is rather meaningless.  In addition, if you don't pay attention to the few facts in Stuart's rant, and get caught up in the histrionics, you'll miss the point.

Most importantly, Stuart's description of the object that brought Moji down is very wrong.  By stating that the rock was much smaller than it really was - whether intentionally or not - Stuart trivializes Carl's concern and bases his argument on false information.   Carl, Moji and I were the three riders in the group in which the crash occurred.

We did not fly by it at approximately 20 mph as Stuart did, if Stuart even saw the rock in question at all.   Reality or possession of correct knowledge or the proper facts never stops Stuart's self-admittedly unfiltered utterances or postings.

We all stopped immediately after Moji hit the rock - with both tires - and crashed very hard.  Carl and I changed his tires so he could just relax and check his injuries.   Carl and I walked back toward the rock which was then near the center line.  Carl retrieved the object from the road.  He took it over to the side of the road where we worked on Moji's bike.  We all stood within a foot or so of the rock for a while.  Carl then tossed it to within a few feet of us where it was away from the road but in plain view.  Later we stood and looked at it several times while talking about the crash, how it happened, how the object might have gotten in the roadway, etc.

The rock was between 5 & 6" on it longest dimension and at its base, it was roughly 3" x 4".  It is fundamentally different from a 2" piece of gravel that Stuart dreams up as the basis of his rant.  One sees something like this in the road only a few times a year - certainly not more than once a month. 

As I expected, Stuart heard Carl, and probably Moji also, describe the size of the rock but chooses to assume that he knows more because he traveled on the same road earlier.  To Stuart, if he thinks it, it is correct, and no other fact or opinion can possibly be correct.

After we got Moji's bike back to being road worthy, Carl & I refused to ride on as Moji suggested and insisted that we would all ride backwards to the start (we were about 1/3 of the way into the ride at the crash point).   

I am not going to state affirmatively that all earlier groups of riders had a clear moral duty to stop and remove the rock from the road.   But I think they should have thought about and probably should have done it.  If we think motorists owe us great duties of care, we ought to consider looking out for one another.   

Moji didn't see this rock because he was 3rd in our line and it was out in the middle of the land.  I was second.  I really didn't see it clearly until after the crash.  It was a blur that passed beneath me right as Carl pointed at it.  Luckily, I followed Carl and moved left a bit when he moved as he gestured.  I barely missed it.  But the rock was not over on the right side of the road where one might first look after a warning gesture.   

I probably would have stopped if I had been riding alone - I do stuff like that, both from the bike and the car.    (If someone wants to challenge my veracity on this, I'll be happy to give you examples and Leah can confirm them.)  What a burden - to have your average speed diminished slightly so you could help known trailing cyclists.

There is so much more that I could right about the numerous absurdities in Stuart's rant, but I've got other things to do.  His facts are wrong because he wasn't there as three other people were.

Sam

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