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Isn't it odd?

Re: Isn't it odd?

Sam49 wrote:

Unfortunately, if you believe Stuart's significantly erroneous description of the rock that caused this wreck, you have the incorrect context and therefore your vote is rather meaningless.

To Hades with the poll, Sam. The rock did not cause the wreck.

It doesn't matter what size the rock was. The fact seems to be that someone placed their faith and their safety in the hands of others missing an obstacle and crashing. 

IMHO, one's safety is wholly one's own responsibility. Just because I have folks pointing out hazards in the road doesn't mean that I trust that communications completely. I still look up the road for hazards. I still keep my ears and eyes wide open for danger.

But, that just me, I guess.

2013 mileage=12,169 miles;
2014 mileage=5,156 miles;
2015  mileage=6,200 miles;
2016 mileage=17,503 miles;

Isaias O'Daniell
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Re: Isn't it odd?

I said it was a "giant gravel chunk" which I believe the word GIANT is appropriate.  True, I did blow by it and not look at it for half an hour, but I also don't think it was a block of concrete though you guys certainly had a lot longer than my two seconds to evaluate what it actually was.

I don't see any real gross mis-representation of facts here...SAM.

What I do now see that I have been given some more facts from your "rant" is that there may well be some transference going on here which I suspected but never brought up.  I saw the "cobble" which is a good term for it (it would be a "small cobble" in my mind but I wouldn't want to be accused of trying to minimize it's actual size, but I do think that 6" is a huge exaggeration).  I successfully warned my trailing riders about the obstacle in the road, Carl and Sam failed to adequately warn their trailing rider (Mike) about the danger.  I'm not saying they didn't try, and Isaias put it best about everyone having to watch out for themselves.

I have let Mike know offline that I meant no harm to him and didn't want him to think that I just didn't care about the rock or his fall and I'm sure he knows this.  The problem is that five years ago next month I didn't see a really nasty pothole hiding in the shade which I hit at 25+ mph on front of a large group in an 18+ ride and not only broke my clavicle but caused injuries and property loss to several others.  Almost everyone assured me it was just a normal danger (some indirectly blamed me) of our sport but I always have felt guilty about hurting Ed Condo and Mark T. and damaging their bikes/equipment.

I have worked VERY hard since then to warn people on these spring rides about peering deep into shady spots and being VERY careful when going from light to dark on the road in shady areas, especially if wearing dark sunglasses.  I have also worked VERY hard to point out and even yell and call out dangers much more than in the past since that incident.

Oh well, we now have comments well before this thread about another subject, dating back to last year, voiced again this year (on that other subject), being amplified by another person never involved before, causing people to be called out personally by name, flaming into a firestorm that is now club wide, and some of those individuals seeming to want retribution or payback for being personally indicted in public, which leads to sniping and griping all around. 

Thanks for all the offline support and recommendations.  I'm going back to riding, hope to see y'all at Atholton HS here in an hour for Mike's ride and I'll try to avoid reacting to the attacks on the forums and List-Serves so everyone else can live in peace and harmony.  If I get killed on today’s ride, then this crud would end up being my legacy and I wouldn’t want that.

~too much of anything is just enough for me. Pete Townshend

Stuart Lamb
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Re: Isn't it odd?

Isaias,

"IMHO, one's safety is wholly one's own responsibility. Just because I have folks pointing out hazards in the road doesn't mean that I trust that communications completely. I still look up the road for hazards. I still keep my ears and eyes wide open for danger. "

That is a great change of position and attitude for you.   Is it different when it is someone else who has crashed?

I vividly remember you going into a lengthy rant last year after you had a wreck over at Perring Parkway about how the State Highway folks were trying to kill us, etc.   And you wanted the State to pay for your broken parts, etc.    I was by the spot the next day and the difference between old gray pavement on the cross street and the new black pavement on Perring Parkway was stark.  It is beyond my comprehension how anyone could miss it.  And the traffic cone that you had described as being insufficient warning were more than enough to alert someone who was approaching the area.

On other occasions you've ridden up beside cars - not in any traffic lane - and then complained when they didn't see you - when you had created the risky situation.  You usually seem to want everyone else to be responsible for your safety even when you don't see something blatantly obvious, or put yourself in a risky situation.

So, how about you judge this situation by the actual attitude that you set forth so often on the web for all to read.

Obviously you always have to try to keep you eyes and ears open and watch for hazards.  Carl didn't say anything about wanting to be able to ride down the road sure that it was free of hazards.  But, the idea that other riders should be personally vigilant doesn't mean that one should do something to remove a blatant hazard from the road, or similarly, try to promote driving practices, road construction, etc., that improves the safety of the riding situation. 

Be consistent.

And the size is significant.  If it is a little rock, then it isn't a significant hazard and seems to be a trivial request, but if it is a larger rock it is clearly a hazard. 

Sam

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Re: Isn't it odd?

Flaming is NOT allowed in BBC forums, period. Anyone who persists will be unsubscribed. Furthermore, there has been quite enough on this topic. It is now CLOSED.

Janet L. Goldstein, BBC Forums Moderator
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Janet Goldstein
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